Please read the Preface and Book I of Livy's History of Rome (also available here). Read the preface carefully. Skim through Book I, concentrating on stories you find particularly interesting.Which of the Livy stories/characters in this section do you find most interesting? How much historical worth do you think there is to this story? What does that story teach about Roman values?
18 comments:
Livy is trying to explain his views of how he writes about the history of Rome. There are many different versions of how it can be explained and there are going to be some that disagree with Livy on his version of the history of Rome. He believes that the majority of the readers are not going to be interested in beginning origins of his writings and there will be more interest when it gets more modern. Overall Livy is just giving the readers a general idea of what the readers should expect when reading his writings. Alex Mason
Livy writes a rather funny preface. Wondering if his attempt at the history of Rome will reward him for the time he spent on it. He also talks about why people take on the task of writing about Rome. The most interesting thing to me in the stories were seeing peoples names that have come to be used for the cities or landmarks themselves. I like seeing a very beginning point of the Romans as well. A few of the stories peeked my interest. The one about the games that were held in order to steal women for the Romans was quite interesting. I think it will be good to see a starting point to Roman life and to see the gradual evolution or adaptation of the Roman people. While also seeing how their culture still influences the culture of today.
Livy writes his history acknowledging that there are different versions of the material available. A story told is backed up with a different one that does not really take away from the value of the history it merely shows how people will tell different versions of the original to suit their interests. I liked the story about the slave boy who slept with a head of flames which pre-ordained his future as the king. Or the story of Brutus who led the revolt against the king who took excessive liberties with a woman who was not his wife. Both stories show how Romans view the rights of citizens and their right to rebel against tyrants. Future basis for Western civilization is set by them.
-Louis Brown-
In the preface Livy notes that he wants to tell Rome's history. He is somewhat overwhelmed by the thought, but he still wants to. The preface shows that Rome was rich in military tradition and tradition in general. He wants people to remember the battles and the people that fought in them. I really like that in book 1.3 livy takes time to explain the geneology. This shows that the tradition of rulers and family were very important to Roman history as well. It seems that Rome wanted to make a legacy for future generations and set strong traditions that will help them thrive into the future.
-Matt Scott
Posters: please be sure to indicate your favorite *character* or *story* from the Livy selection here. Romulus? Numa? Aeneas? Brutus? Our discussion tomorrow will focus on what these stories show about Roman values, and it will help a lot if you point out here the admirable (or not so admirable) characterisitics of Rome's "founding fathers."
I like how Livy in his preface mentions that the origin or rome doesn't seem so much like that of a historian but that of a poet, he doesn't go so far as to say if it's true or not he is just doing the research on what people believed at the time. I like the first part where Livy explains how the origins of romes first people go back to survivers from troy. so the character of Aeneas It is interesting how the romans wanted their past to be from the trojans who were famous from homers poems and maybe they did this to have a sense of pride that they were not ordinary and troy had a great military background other then the city being burned down.
Because I am very interested in mythology, passage 1.7 peeked my interest by bringing in the mythical Greek hero Hercules. I already knew that Rome believed this hero to be a God, but I had not read the basis that justified their worship of him. As can be seen here, even in it's earliest days, Rome revered brutal manly acts. With the Murder of Cacus, Hercules became a god. With the slaying of Remus, Romulus became sole ruler of the fledling city state. It is easy to see this brutallity continue on and be refined into a large, nearly unstopable, war machine.
Livy is writing a preface as his knowledge to the history of Rome and give his best views about important events. One thing that interests me is all of the battles that are mentioned in the first book. This shows the devotion of all different armies to their king. Also it is very interesting how all of the battles and struggles date back to the famous battle at Troy. I also like the devotion of Romulus to his grandfather in book 1.5. He seems to be a very typical Roman in that he is not afraid to fight for what he believes in.
I would also agree that the preface seems to have some humor in it. Livy seems up to the task of telling the stories of history even if he is not rewarded with anything for his labor. As for some of my favorite parts, I enjoyed parts 1.11 and 1.12 which delt with Romulus and his legion taking care of business and doing away with some of his enemies around him. You can see from these parts of the story how Roman men like Romulus feared nothing and would do what it took to win a battle. This is a perfect example of a how the Romans felt about men like Romulus. Romans seem to put their generals and men in charge at a high standard and these men fear nothing and are brave and this is something that the Romans admire.
Eric Bengs
Livy seems to write for understanding and a chance to escape the sorry condition his country is in. He realizes that many will not care about the begginings of the country, but he chooses to start there to show the morality and pureness the people of that country once possesed. He wants to show what happened and how such pure intentions could bring about such greed. Thats why i like the second story about latinus finding out the stroy of aeneas and letting him stay it shows understanding and compassion.
Livy's preface was rather interesting in how he tries to explain how he hopes to be rewarded for the time he spent on the works. But from his stand point it is very believable. Livy probably would have become the scholar that he was by reading and studying the great Greek works by those such as Herodotus.Thus it is understandable as to why he would be worried about the way history would look at his works. The first book was filled with interesting stories. I especially liked the history of how Romulus had Remus killed making him sole leader of Rome. I also liked the history of Aeneas and the founding of Rome. As an aside Dido the founder of the Phoenicians and eventually the city of Carthage was a lover of Aeneas and after she was abandoned by Aeneas she killed herself cursing the sons of Aeneas, whom became the Romans the rivals of Carthage during the Punic Wars.
I found the most interesting stories in book 1 to be 1.24, .25, and .26, the three that dealt with the Curiatii vs the Horatii. I would say that something like this would be historically possible considering the way that Mettius talks Tullus down is to point out the fact that even though Alba or Rome is going to be the winner, they will be susceptible to Etruscan attack, thus making Tullus think twice about this battle. In times of great honor and battlefield glory, I would find it very possible that two sets of three brothers would be greatly honored to take on this task and in no way scared or have any regret of the consequence of death, other than the fact it meant their country lost. This shows a great deal about the Roman values in the sense that they put country above all else. The tactics of certain Roman founding fathers may have been malicious, deceitful, and all around abhorrent, but in the end everything they did was for their country in an effort to make it stronger and grow to ever larger numbers and power.
-Nik Aberle
As we all know the Roman Empire is the standard for all civilizations that has came since. Livy, makes it perfectly clear that the examples of it's rise and fall are the most clear and evident the world has ever seen. Making it perfectly clear that Rome was the greatest civilization that ever existed, and a perfect example of failure due to "self-indulgence and licentiousness." I thought he defended his work a little to much in that if he "labored" in his work like a historian should when covering Rome, then it will be well regarded.
-eric ellingson
I really enjoyed the story where the Romans led by Romulus fought the Sabines. I like how the Sabines tricked the girl into letting them into the citadel. I am guessing that there is a lot of historical worth to this story because Livy tells us about many different individuals and what how they were part of this battle which makes me believe that there is a lot of historical value here. I think this story teaches us about how the Romans valued their family. When the daughter/wives of the Sabines and Romans came out and begged for the battle to stop it actually did. Overall I find that battle to be very interesting.
Which of the Livy stories/characters in this section do you find most interesting? How much historical worth do you think there is to this story? What does that story teach about Roman values?
I think the biggest thing that you get from Livy's stories is that above all else the Romans believed the were a great people and that they were meant to be great. There is this deep mythology that surrounds their past and it at time seems out landish, but it was a decree of the gods. That they were destined to be great and that thing fell their way because of this. That every part of their history has its own little history. That the minor things in their history has its own story and reason that may be far fetched, but it has its traditions.
Adam Kuehl
The Livy story in 1.17 is essentially the start of a Roman democracy. I found it interesting that for awhile they had rotated authority amongst the Senators because they could not choose who should be the set leader. They knew there should be only one so they turned to the people to make a choice and the Senators would ratify the decision according to their authority. This story probably does hold some historical truth because the beginning of their republican government had to start somewhere. What this story teaches about Roman values is their society is stronger with one set leader and if he appeals to the people's interests.
I like the story of Romulas and his brother. How they are left either wealth or power.But the one with the wealth tries to buy the power. Romulas ends up killing his brother over greed of rulership. this shows that power and wealth are important but greed is not a desirable trait. i believe there is about half truth here.
I think one of the most interesting stories written by Livy deals with the Rape of Lucretia & the resulting fall of the Roman Monarchy. Throughout Roman History, suicide is consistently seen as the honorable route in face of failure & defeat as a way of preserving what is left of one's honor. Lucretia was merely one of the first to illustrate this. The inconsistency between the story of Lucretia & the Rape of the Sabine Women is, in my opinion, worthy of note. I think the historical worth of this story is that it not only illustrates an important value to the Romans (death before dishonor) and that when Romans committed suicide, it tended to be bloody from the start, but also that this story has been an inspiration to not only many Romans, but countless other artists, poets, and authors, in the centuries that have followed.
Cassandra Stangeland
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