Please read the introduction to Sallust's War with Jugurtha. Pick out what you consider to be the most important/most interesting line from this selection. If other students have chosen a different line, explain why *your* line is even more important or more interesting. As an alternative, pick out the line from Sallust you consider the worst, or the least interesting. If other students have chosen a different line, explain why your line is even worse or less interesting.
17 comments:
I liked this passage the best "Thus beauty of person, eminent wealth, corporeal strength, and all other things of this kind, speedily pass away; but the illustrious achievements of the mind are, like the mind itself, immortal." When you consider why most people are remembered it is for their achievements of the mind like in science, or a decision they made to stand for something. This line just seems to me to be very true and stood out. It is true that things like beauty disappear, it makes me think of model who everyone knows at the time, but a little while later she is forgotten, while people will keep remember people such as roman philosophers for what they thought of. Thats why i think my line is the best and im the first one to post so if anyone picks a different one it will be inferior.
"Mankind unreasonably complain of their nature, that, being weak andshort-lived, it is governed by chance rather than intellectual power;[1]for, on the contrary, you will find, upon reflection, that there isnothing more noble or excellent, and that to nature is wanting ratherhuman industry than ability or time." I understood this passage the because I see at as a form of assurance to the people of Rome that their existences has meaning. Most of the people of Rome worked hard all their life and lived short lives, that was the daily routine. They did not have much say in political matters. Many of the common people were farmers or labors. They should realize that the powerful people of Rome could not function so powerfully without the common mans work. The senate relied on the work of the farmers so they could have their big feasts. The military generals relied on the simple blacksmiths for the mass production of weapons that were needed for battles. Alex Mason
This passage caught my attention-I have often heard that Quintus Maximus,[15] Publius Scipio,[16] andmany other illustrious men of our country, were accustomed to observe,that, when they looked on the images of their ancestors, they felttheir minds irresistibly excited to the pursuit of honor.[17] Not,certainly, that the wax,[18] or the shape, had any such influence;but, as they called to mind their forefathers' achievements, such aflame was kindled in the breasts of those eminent persons, as couldnot be extinguished till their own merit had equaled the fame andglory of their ancestors.But, in the present state of manners, who is there, on the contrary,that does not rather emulate his forefathers in riches and extravagance,than in virtue and labor? Even men of humble birth,[19] who formerlyused to surpass the nobility in merit, pursue power and honor ratherby intrigue and dishonesty, than by honorable qualifications; as ifthe praetorship, consulate, and all other offices of the kind, werenoble and dignified in themselves, and not to be estimated accordingto the worth of those who fill them.- Rome still had great men, they were juss few and far between. Few realized how fortunate they actually were and didnt want to give any benifit to thier subordinates. This concept is easily understandable through events of today, sad but how so true the phrase "Those who dont learn from the mistakes of old are bound to repeat."
The passage that says "To rule our country or subjects byforce, though we may have the ability, and may correct what is wrong,is yet an ungrateful undertaking; especially as all changes in thestate lead to bloodshed, exile, and other evils of discord;...prompt a man to sacrifice his honor and liberty to the power of a party." It seems the most interesting to me because Sullust diagnoses the illness that is affecting his Rome precisely. Rome had acquired her empire through the use of arms and for the Senate it may have seemed easiest at times to allow diplomatic affairs to degenerate to the point where force is the only necessary solution. Projecting the force of an army abroad leads to home ethics and values to become eroded and an example of this is the the story of the Gracchi brothers. They sought more for the people and were out-flanked by jealous senators and murdered for it.
-Louis Brown-
But if the mind, ensnared by
corrupt passions, abandons itself to indolence and sensuality, when
it has indulged for a season in pernicious gratifications, and when
bodily strength, time, and mental vigor, have been wasted in sloth,
the infirmity of nature is accused, and those who are themselves in
fault impute their delinquency to circumstances.
This was my favorite passage because I just like how it talks about how when people who do things for the wrong reasons and are obsessed with wicked passions and when things are not going there way they look to blame things other then themselves for the present state of things, like nature or the economy or the bad government. I feel that a lot can be learned and should be taken into effect and some people should take a long look in the mirror and decide who is really to blame. Just kind of insightful I think
The passage that I thought was best was "To rule our country or subjects[10] by force, though we may have the ability, and may correct what is wrong,is yet an ungrateful undertaking; especially as all changes in the state lead to[11] bloodshed, exile, and other evils of discord; while to struggle in ineffectual attempts, and to gain nothing, by wearisome exertions, but public hatred, is the extreme of madness; unless when abase and pernicious spirit, perchance, may prompt a man to sacrifice his honor and liberty to the power of a party." This is interesting to me because it ridicules the way that most Romans believed was the right way to set laws. Laws in these days included a lot of bloodshed, and misery. The laws set by the senate were unfair and unjust, and Sullust calls for a change in the laws and says that the way the senate has dealt with issues is wrong.
"Thus beauty of person, eminent wealth, corporeal strength, andall other things of this kind, speedily pass away; but the illustrious achievements of the mind are, like the mind itself, immortal."
I really like this passage as it speaks the truth on several accounts. In today's society we get bogged down with material possesions and always wanting more. It consumes our lives and what we live for. If we were to gain knowledge and use that knowledge to be free thinkers that will be forever valuable and help one out throughout his/her life.
I think the other passages are important, but still don't speak to the same level as this one. With out knowledge and freethinking nothing can stem from that. Thats why I feel this line is the most important.
This is obviously the best one. If man, however, had as much regard for worthy objects, as he has
spirit in the pursuit of what is useless,[5] unprofitable, and even
perilous, he would not be governed by circumstances more than he would
govern them, and would attain to a point of greatness, at which,
instead of being mortal,[6] he would be immortalized by glory. Because it tells why people fail and tells them to quit complaining. If the people would learn from this passage then everything they desire would become theirs.
This is the stop whining and do something about it quote. It speaks to me. And I think all other posts should bow down to this post. So there.
"But, in the present state of manners, who is there, on the contrary,that does not rather emulate his forefathers in riches and extravagance,than in virtue and labor?"- this line does not say it all but it speaks the most if one would look at our own time and theres and compare the two side by side. Rome lost the ideals of working hard and honorably and would rather grow fat and wealthy. This is true for americans as a whole with exceptions of course. People in the whole world and through out histroy as a whole forget what was sacraficed for them and forfited so that they may lead the lives they have. The ideals of honorable work is always forgotten when one can have others do it and still have the benfits of haveing it done. This passage i chose should ring true to everyone in the world as a warning or a symbol, anything... but it doesnt and thats why i chose it because it shows one of the greates signs that a people of a nation have become corrupted.
The ruler and director of the life of man is the mind, which, when it pursues glory in the path of true merit, is sufficiently powerful,efficient, and worthy of honor.
I think this passage is the best because I agree with it. I think that people are viewed by what they do in life which is lead by the mind. I thnk people that pursue the glory in the path of true merit really do show everyone that they are honorable people and deserve the credit for it. I think this is a good line because the Romans people are considered to be honorable and this line describes that perfectly.
i liked the line "As man is composed of mind and body, so, of all our concerns and
pursuits, some partake the nature of the body, and some that of the
mind." the best. it stuck out to me becouse there seems to be a duality between the two. if you spend your life to look beautiful and have all the nicest things you lose out and still want more. a bordome takeing place. and importantly its the beauty of the outer body that people strive for, but in the end that will dissapear and all we are left with is the mind.
My personal favorite is "But if the mind, ensnared by corrupt passions, abandons itself[3] to indolence and sensuality, when it has indulged for a season in pernicious gratifications, and when bodily strength, time, and mental vigor, have been wasted in sloth,the infirmity of nature is accused, and those who are themselves infault impute their delinquency to circumstances"
Honestly, half the fun is just listening to this rant--very eloquent. However, I have to agree that there is a lot to be learned, both about the people who are written about and the writers. I think that there is a great deal of insight that can be obtained from this quote.
Cassandra Stangeland
The ruler and director of the life of man is the mind, which, when itpursues glory in the path of true merit, is sufficiently powerful,efficient, and worthy of honor,[2] and needs no assistance fromfortune, who can neither bestow integrity, industry, or other goodqualities, nor can take them away.
To me this passage is the best because it shows how people with the right mind set and men with honor will truly shine if given the chance. If you would have many people that believed this and lived like this you would have a great nation, and Rome was as it gained power, but once it got too big this thought of using your mind for the right things and real honor seemed to be lost and corrupt men found ways to bend the system to their benefit.
Eric Bengs
"But, in the present state of manners, who is there, on the contrary,that does not rather emulate his forefathers in riches and extravagance,than in virtue and labor? Even men of humble birth, who formerly used to surpass the nobility in merit, pursue power and honor rather
by intrigue and dishonesty, than by honorable qualifications; as if
the praetorship, consulate, and all other offices of the kind, were
noble and dignified in themselves, and not to be estimated according
to the worth of those who fill them."
I really like this passage if just for the fact that it makes me think of our own government officials. He's simply saying that men were being judged by what they had not by how they act, and I think that's the way our society has developed as well. Interesting and a Sad fact.
The passage I chose was: "Even men of humble birth, who formerly used to surpasss the nobility in merit, pursue power and honor rather by intrigue and dishonesty, than by honorable qualifications; as if the praetorship, consolate, and all other offices of the kind, were noble and dignified in themselves and not to be estimated according to the worth of those who fill them." This passage reminded me of the struggle Rome was going through at the time between the nobility. The nobility claimed that they were pursuing honor, but it came corrupted with power and prestige instead. Many were in pursuit of their own interests rather than the people of Rome, this lead to their downfall.
Jessica Luebeck
Thus beauty of person, eminent wealth, corporeal strength, and all other things of this kind, speedily pass away; but the illustrious achievements of the mind are, like the mind itself, immortal." I like this passage because it shows an emphiasis that the mind and thinking are greater than anything else. They also seems to show that they know things like beauty,power,strength dont stick around and that if you dont have a good head about you, you will be lost when it all fades away. I think this passage is a cool quote if not the most tuthfull statment from this whole selection.
As man is composed of mind and body, so, of all our concerns and pursuits, some partake the nature of the body, and some that of the mind. Thus beauty of person, eminent wealth, corporeal strength, and all other things of this kind, speedily pass away. I chose this line because I feel that it is still true today, and always will do. It seems like in society today we worry more about our assets than our mental health, and our vanity tends to overtake how our mind works. I think that this line eminates that the people who will be best remembered in history will not be the rich and beautiful, but the wise and intellectual. After all, how many celebrities these days honestly do something great for the well being of the country? Not many.
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